Appreciate a little feedback from the GIRLS (I will mop the floors and do the dishes for a month))

[Genericsa]

Help me only if you want to , if not ill be out mowing anyway:) be vague or specific , its cool we will still be friends none the less:)
(Its pretty clear the ladies in the group put in most of the dog training effort )
so I would love to here from you!!!
I‘m just a regular guy who for a large portion of my life, like most other dog owners, struggled to find a really effective dog training program. I tried every program that came along; read every book, none of them seem to work or at least, they always seemed to be missing something...
So after a light bulb moment I decided to spend the next 20 something years learning all I could about dog training. I finally got it!
Typical guy right, it took me 20 years to get it....

Stay with me ....

So at the moment I'm putting together a comprehensive program geared toward(yes that's right (THE GIRLS) SORRY GUYS THEY DO MOST OF THE WORK!
that not only helps you teach your dog commands and discipline, but it addresses a wide variety of dog behavior issues.

(So here are the 3 big questions, so I'm sure not to leave anything out)

1.) What's was the biggest motivator for you to purchase a training program the first time?

2.) What did you like about program ? if you did not like it, what Do you feel was missing? was it an issue? a frustration?

3.) If you are anything like me, in the past you have tried them all (or so it seems)
when you finally find the one that works, what will have been the most important factor to motivate you buy it?
Is it the price ?
Desperation for the cure to a specific problem your having ?

Maybe you believe your dogs an alien, and I just happen to work with Alien dogs?

I live with a cattle dog I swear is not from this planet but his girlfriend cant live with out him (OK nor can we)!!

Anyway....
Thank a lot for the input !!!
It will help a lot !

warm regards,
genericsa

[Nancy]

Genericsa,
I am a dog trainer now. If I were looking for a trainer/behaviorist I would be looking for a positive trainer. That is no physical punishment, spike collars, no choke collars, no alpha roll overs.
The trainer would be strictly operant conditioning. No hands on.
Nancy

[Belles]

Nancy, your method is fine for some dogs, not all, in my opinion.

There are multiple dog training methods and you have to find one that works for your particular dog. We took in a year old rescue German Shepherd Male that had zero manners, was becoming aggressive and was attacking any dog that he saw. Sorry, if you tried positive training with him, he would have laughed in your face and then ripped it off, most likely.

We worked with a woman that specializes in German Shepherds and she uses traditional training methods. First day, he broke his collar and leash.. and attacked another woman and her dog. Next time, we put him on a choke chain. More effective, but he was still flipping himself in the air and didn't pay one iota of attention to his collar device. The third time we put him in a prong collar and found the magic formula. He snapped to attention, focused on my husband and focused on what we were asking him to do. He's been on the prong collar for almost 3 months and are ready to move him back down to a choke collar. Once he's level with that, we will move him back down to his martingale.

I'm all for positive training and that's a great method if you have a pup or a mature dog that just needs some basic training and can FOCUS. But don't fool yourself into thinking that positive training works for every dog all the time. It does not. I've trained my dogs for years.. it can work most of the time, but not always. Positive training has been working very nice for Axel now.. he's responding well, but it wasn't until we established alpha with him and he learned to accept it that it was even possible.

I am not saying you do Nancy, but I really get annoyed with trainers that automatically degrade a specific training method because they don't know much about it or they observe people who are not trained in how to use these collars, and do it the wrong way. Sure, they can cause physical pain (kind of the point when you need to get their attention), and you bet.. in the wrong hands, you can injure your dog. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about effective methods of training that deliver long-term memory and results.

I am also not a huge fan of e-collars and I have NEVER had a dog that needed one, but must admit, this rescue came very close. I believe an e-collar can be extremely effective if used properly and temporarily to achieve results. I've seen Cesar use them and while it bothers me to watch, I would do it to if it meant it was the last bastion of hope for a dog that was either going to succeed or get put down.

In a nutshell, use the least severe method of training to achieve the right results. If you need to use other options, make sure you use them under the close supervision of an expert.

[Genericsa]

Thanks guys, I appreciate your input!! this will help a lot.

[Belles]

And btw, my trainer charges me $150 for 5 weeks. Even though I train most all the dogs I've ever owned, I like to go to her for specific training on behavioral issues.. it solidifies what I'm doing and I make sure I stay up to speed on the various methods.

[bobbie]

Belles is Absolutley correct in every aspect. As myself being a Certified German Shepherd K-9 trainer for Over 35 yrs, she hit the nail on the head. All personalitys in dogs are differant as with people so Trust comes first then Respect all the rest will follow. Thanks Belles for informing the group here. To answer your question number 1 in the above discussion, as a small child I had an uncanny love for animals and bonded well with all I met. So I was always bringing home library books on all dogs, cats, any animal . When I graduated High School I Immediately went into Dog K-9 Training school. Advanced to all levels and took 4 yrs to feel satisfied for the work necessary to compete. While having 2 GSD's at home that I trained from pups with good well mannered aspects and total obedience. I never resorted to any force that was not bonded by love, trust and respect with the dogs eager to learn and I was also raisng children . I made learning fun, with dogs and kids as well. Hope this helps, bobbie

[Cheryl aka Purr]

Bobbie I am you, but for the follow up :(
I also inhaled and read and reread all training books all books on various breeds of dogs, more so then cats. I spent free periods in elementary school in the library so often the head librarian gave me an xmas gift of home made fortune cookies!!
I still have a habit of reading and rereading favorite training books. I think some people (guess I am one of them) just have an inner connection with dogs. Lost count with how many neighbors dogs I trained and played with. I think for most dogs any interaction is an opportunity to connect. If you approach the dog out of love the dog is open and learns just by interaction, in a positive way, BUT there are individuals who need a stricter handling. Same time there are individuals that would collapse with the stricter handling, all dependant on the individual dog.

My preferred mode to teach a dog to walk on lead is to connect first, so you have him knowing you, then walk, if he starts tending to pull me, I say oops slap my leg and turn 180 degree turn and keep walking, dogs on leash so he or she comes with me, if pulls me again I repeat, also with intermittant stops, where I tell him or her sit. After a while, when I stop most dogs look at me and then sit. I am informal, I dont expect dogs to walk strictly heel, unless I tell them heel, just walking not pulling.

[Belles]

You're right about the collapsing part.. but that's what I mean by being a good trainer. A good trainer will sense this and know when enough is enough.

With Axel, there was no inner connection. He was disconnected and disassociated with everything and anything. He had ZERO respect ladies.. I can honestly say, he was the worst dog I've ever encountered. Our trainer was shocked.. in 25 years of champion schutzhund training, she had never encountered a dog like Axel. It was as forceful as I've ever had to be with a dog and a prong collar was exactly what it took to grab his attention. Within a few weeks, he was like putty in John's hands.. following him, leading, heeling, staying in the down, staying until called. He just bloomed.

Today, he comes to me for cuddles and love and he is full of kisses and joy. He is fun to be around, great on his walks and he knows and performs all his commands, plus high fives, roll overs, and "smooch" for me whenever I ask. A better dog we couldn't hope for.

Had I relied on postitive reinforcement, Axel would have been put to sleep. He came in as a bite dog and was on his way when I got him. We were his last hope. Thank god for that prong collar and the RIGHT trainer for the right dog.

[bobbie]

Cheryl, I read all breeds also as well as studied the anatomey, various breed potential health problems, breeding no, no's Totally AKC regulation { which have ruined health in some breeds"] etc. It just happened that I found The German Shepherd to be my favorite breed with intelligence, loyalty and love. I think this choice happened after my first visit to Europe as a kid and I saw Shepherds never seen in the states at that time . The long hairs the short hairs while visiting Germany. Some were almost like a shetland pony to me in size. I was awestruck when I saw their behaviour and obedience with love and loyalty. Love at first sight LOL I agree that all need training according to their personalitis and one size does not fit all ,just like rasing a child. Hugs, bobbie