Dogs and lawn pesticides

[Robin]

What does the Dr have to say about safety issues regarding phenoxy herbicides (2-4D, MCPP, MCPA) and first hand contact with dogs? These products would be what is sprayed all over lawns by home owners and companies that drive around in big trucks with photos of dogs on them.

The companies that make these products claim...
"They are safe when dry".

Doesn't that translate to:
"They are unsafe when wet?"

Thank you.

[Eric Dunayer]

Robin,

Most of these lawn chemicals are safe -- meaning they won't cause permanent or severe signs when a dog or cat are exposed to them when they have been applied to a lawn. When they are wet, they may cause mild vomiting and diarrhea. Once they are dry, they are not likely to cause anything. Also, when they are applied to the lawn they are generally very dilute. Exposure to the undiluted herbicide or ingestion a large amount (as in eating from the bag of herbicide) could cause more severe signs.

The best thing is to not let pets out onto lawns until after the product has dried to be safe. But walking on the lawn or eating some grass should not be a problem.

[Robin]

The chemicals sprayed in my yard are the MOST common chemicals that are sprayed everywhere. Moose exhibited symptoms within 3 hours of poisoning and was unconscious by hour 48, just like many studies state would happen. Just like people, dogs have individual sensitivities. Plus, he had first hand exposure, the guy sprayed in front of him. Chemlawn states SAFE when DRY. I saw first hand this meant -------> DANGEROUS WHEN WET.

[Robin]

Dr. Eric, Thank you answering. However, I completely and VEHEMENTLY disagree with your canned answer.

My yellow lab Moose dog died from liver and kidney failure due an herbicide lawn care application by CHEMLAWN that was applied WITHOUT my consent, knowledge or permission. The applicator sprayed in the presence of my dog and towards 12 open windows. Exactly 48 hours later, Moose was on the ground unconscious, convulsing. No one from Chemlawn would ever call me back. I called the EPA where I was told "We get so many calls like these we can't possible handle them all". (IF EPA records incoming calls, it's there.) EPA pushed me to the Maryland Department of Agriculture. I filed a complaint and went through two investigations lasting 18 months.

The first investigation was half assed, slanted towards ChemLawn. They got a slap on the wrist. I asked for the working file and found the local manager and applicator lied their faces off and so I requested a 2nd investigation and pointed out their lies. By the end, I was solely dealing with the Chief of the Pesticide Division of the MDA. The MDA FINALLY threw the book at Chemlawn as much as their matrix would allow. CHEMLAWN was fined AS A MIDSIZE, LOCAL FRANCHISE CO (and the not BIG company we know they ARE.) The fine would have been $5,000 if fined as large company. (Fine $$ goes to the state, not me.)

Anyway, the applicator was temporarily suspended, and threatened with loss of license, and Chemlawn was fined $2050.00. First Investigation, ended: March 2007

Violation of Comar Sections 15.05.01.12 C. D
Records Violation. Failed to record the plant, animal or site to which the pesticide was applied
and the acreage or square footage of the treatment area

Violation of Comar Sections 15.05.01.16 D
Upon the customer's request, the licensee shall provide the customer with advanced
notice of a pesticide application

Second Investigation, ended: March 2008

Violation of Comar Sections 15.05.01.02B (3) (b)
Failing to observe all precautions in the use of a pesticides so that non target organisms, including humans, do not suffer injury

Violation of Comar Sections 15.05.01.18A (3)
Conducting a pesticide application in a faulty, careless, or negligent manner

Violation of Comar Sections 15.05.01.03 C (5)
Licensees and registered employees shall immediately notify MDA by telephone of any pesticides accident, incident, and report to the Department the full details of the even including remediation taken.
Request my working file from the MDA, it's probably 6 inches thick and educate yourself.

The statement that lawn chemicals are safe for dogs (or humans) is BS and only profits BIG PHARMA. The same companies that make pesticides that poison us all --are the same companies that your personal physicians AND Veterinarians use to hand us drugs to make us better ---after they make us sick from the pesticides. Talk about a CONFLICT OF INTEREST!!! Pesticides are in our ground water, in the air, on our vegetables and other foods, like boxed cereals and our own lawns. We can't escape them. Every person in the US tests positive for 1-2 DOZEN dangerous, cancer causing pesticides!

Do some research and I guarantee you'll be shocked. Our own EPA, which is supposed to "protect us", is in bed with the pharmaceutical companies.

FACT: A majority of the average herbicide spray is listed as "INERTS". What exactly these INERTS are by, EPA laws, do NOT have to be listed on product, and can be more dangerous than the listed products! We really don't know what is in final lawn application. The epidemiologic studies that pesticides go through to be approved by the EPA ----do not contain the INERTS!
There are no "apples to apples" comparisons to what is tested, approved and then actually sprayed on our lawns!

FACT: Dogs are 10X more susceptible to the ill effects of phenoxy herbicides than rats, mice or rabbits. (Google: TIMCHALK, DOGS) This is why dogs are EXCLUDED from phenoxy studies and rats are used instead, because rats can take a lot more poison, after all they thrive in sewers. Could you live in sewage? Dogs have an inherent INABILITY to process phenoxy family herbicides from their system. The chemicals roil around through their liver and kidneys causing irreparable damage.

FURTHERMORE: DOGS HAVE NO VALUE IN A COURT OF LAW!!!
Take my same circumstance and insert the word CHILD and it's a multimillion dollar lawsuit. But it was a dog, NO VALUE.

Also the EPA person who answered the phone told me (also presumably on tape): "You're going about this wrong. You should campaign for dogs to have value so you can sue."

I said: "I wouldn't have to sue anybody and my dog would be alive if the EPA didn't approve and allow these chemicals which which they know are dangerous to dogs AND HUMANS to be sprayed in residential yards!

My Veterinary was ignorant and she REFUSED to treat my dog for pesticide poisoning, which is EXACTLY what I asked her to do. (Documented.) She charged me $1400.00 to test for other liver and kidney aliments. I found out AFTER Moose died, that you have up to 48 hours to treat, by filtering the kidneys. He was at Vet at hour 48, the last chance to treat. Yes, I have switched Vets. What I found is that most Vets do not know what to do when presented with a pesticide poisoned animal. Some do, but most DON'T. My new Vet is aware of what to do.

The first guy I dealt with at the MDA told me that "You will never get your Vet to admit Pesticide Poisoning" , he'd NEVER seen it in his long career. (Also, documented and on audio tape.)

Doctor Eric, do you research. I DID. All the information I've stated is OUT THERE. I found it, so can EVERYONE ELSE.

Charles Timchalk Battelle, Pacific Northwest Division, Center for Biological Monitoring and Modeling, 902 Battelle Boulevard, Richland, WA 99352, USA
Comparative inter-species pharmacokinetics of phenoxyacetic acid herbicides and related organic acids: Evidence that the dog is not a relevant species for evaluation of human health risk
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TCN-...

This is a huge cover up, by all the entities in power of pesticide laws and your dog is collateral damage. Dogs die all the time of "unknown liver and kidney failure". There are labs around the country that do pesticide tests... such as Blacksburg, VA. If your dog dies suddenly, ask for a necropsy, make sure the right tests are done and sent to the proper labs.


Beyondpesticides.org is campaigning the EPA to ban these pesticides from our yards, LIKE CANADA already has!!!!
http://www.beyondpesticides.org/lawn/index.htm

Do yourself a favor and GET EDUCATED! Put yourself on Google Alerts with the term "pesticide poisoning" and you'll see it happens all over the world everyday. SHOCKING!

NEW!! I wish this existed when Moose was poisoned on Oct. 3rd, 2006!
How Many Pets Are Poisoned by Lawn Pesticides?
A new Website allows veterinarians to report and track pesticide poisonings so dogs, cats and other pets can be better protected.
http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/latest/pets-pestici...


Go green and learn to love dandelions like I have. My family has already paid the ultimate price for our own ignorance and the cover up that is poisoning America.

Visit this site:
http://catsdogslawns.blogspot.com/

My video testimony is in the middle.

[Robin]

One more thing... when I ran outside and asked the idiot if he sprayed pesticides in front of my dog... he said "Don't worry, the spray is as harmless as water." Just like you said. The result was a dead dog. Please re-read the charges by the MDA. Apparently, they agreed that pesticides are NOT as harmless as water!

[Elyse Orecchio]

Robin, Dr. Dunayer kindly donated his time to help people for free, and you have no right to be so disrespectful on this forum. I have told him not to bother answering.