Are we getting there with the message?

[The Professional]

Are we getting there with the message?
Hello everyone, my name is Ruben (a.k.a. The Professional)
I am concern about the “stop cruelty towards horses” message, which we’re trying to spread out there.
It’s reaching the conscience of people yet? I think not! Perhaps it sound like a negative statement, but the truth is that I’m a little frustrated over this issue. Every day is some new case of horse abuse and even horse people agree with slaughter plants. Not to mention those who believe euthanasia is the only alternative, giving the horse no second chance to live. Can someone tell me if we’re getting “there” with our message…please?

Cordially,
The Professional

[The Professional]

Several days has passed since I posted this comment and I realized that it's a very difficult question to answer with a simple yes or no. In one hand, cruelty keeps its devastating path. On the other hand, people have been educated and become more aware of this issue. I hope for a better year, one with less horse abuse and more compassion.

[Paula]

Hi what you are trying to get across is great I spread the owrd all the time but the odd thing is that alot of poeple don't even have a clue about what is going on even horese poeple. Poeple think horse slaughter doe not happen since the remaining horse slaughter plants like beltex in the US were closed. I do not beleaive in slaughter under any circumstance and euthanasia should be the last option. my personal outlook is that slaughter is cruel and should be illegal. Not one of my horses will ever see a slaughter plant I even have one life ins. policy that is to just take care of my animals and my freind whom works for the ASPCA will over see it. Like you the toughht of this enrages me to know end I get so fusterated. We as horse lovers need to get out and spread the word. A great advocate for this cause is pure thoughts horses rescue wonderful poeple. The pro slaughter poeple say this and that about the surplus of horses bull stop over breeding if slaughter was not a option to these folks they might think twice about breeding if you can't sell them and can't send them to slaughter then I guess you'll have to feed them so maybe they'll think twice about over breeding. I have a 1/2 QH1/2 arab my husband purchased him off a slaughter truck at 8 months oldhe is now 6 he was sent to slaughter because he rared and scared the owner he's sharp what a love bug thinks he's a dog. Susie 20 year old pulling ponie bad hoof care and broken ribs destin for slaughter used and abused now 25 and loving life and just chilling and being spoiled. then there is chance 1/2 QH 1/2 arab the ladie just lost interest and was going to take him to auction my husband and I traveled a total of 20 hors to save this horse whom most likley would have ended up on a dinner plate he was about 100 pouds under weight he looks great now and loves it here it really bugs me when poeple say how much they love there horses and will take them to some auction and watch some kill buyer purchase there horse for a couple lousy bucks and say well it was my only option.Shame on them. I have poeple all the time asking me to take horses because they don't want them any longer My God I could not imagine giving my family members to any one. Good luck in your great cause and I will keep spreading the word.

[Theresa]

The group AC4H has a recorded PSA that I am in the process of getting several radio stations to play, the word is getting there but they are better financed and people sometimes want to turn a blind eye to what they can't stop. It isn't that they are uncaring it is that they don't know where to start. I go to several groups and while I can't rescue all I can help where I can. Think of it as a puzzle, without all the pieces the picture will never be completed.

[The Professional]

Dear Paula and Theresa, I appreciate your comments in agreement not with me but with the cause. As any other issue that raise a controversy there’re always two bands, one who favor and one against and supposedly as any other case horse slaughter issue had two good arguments. On one hand, there is a small group that also includes horse lovers’ people who thinks HS is a necessity, and in the other extreme there is a majority of people who strongly believe that HS is cruel and unnecessary.

Now what? We’re to believe that eating horse meat is necessary? Is there no other type of meat-food in the market? It’s really true, that horse slaughter is the ONLY possible solution to all horse related problems? And so on…. My dear friends these are the kind of questions I ask in order to tip the balance to one side; if you know what I mean. Then what is the solution? EDUCATION! People need to be educated about the responsibility of having and caring for a horse.

Educate about indiscriminating breeding. The new generations need to be aware of the badness, the evilness of horse slaughter. The way I see it, some people had their mind set up and since there is no solution for all those poor horses that have been abandoned or auctioned, HS is the best possible solution to “end” their suffering. The good news is that we raise our voices loud and clear, to the new generation so they won’t fall in the same mistake of previous generations.

Horse slaughter is not the solution, is inhumane, horses are not for consumption, if they can’t afford to have more horses then stop the “Empty womb syndrome”, Stop the “back yard” breeding, breed accordingly, be compassionate toward the horses, teach your children to love and respect horses and animals in general, don’t expect the government to take care for our mistakes, be responsible, be compassionate, be human!

This is what I say to each person when engaged in a conversation about horse slaughter. Not everybody will agree of course but the messages are there and eventually the new generation will show the result of education on the well-being for the horse in America. There is no horse slaughter in Puerto Rico where I live; nevertheless, it’s a moral obligation for all people to respect if not love; the noble brute, the magnificent creation of God…The horse! That idea of yours Theresa, the use of radio, is a great way of speeding the message and Paula, maybe you can’t change the horse world, but you certainly have changed the world for those horses! Thanks to the both of you and to all who consider new alternatives to deal with horse slaughter.

[Kristina Nelson]

Its hard to spread the word if people dont listen to us! Because some people think that it is pointless to help because they think that it wont do anything but realy it could help some animals lives!

[The Professional]

Dear Kristina I agree with you, it’s extremely hard these days to spread the word when news of open slaughter plants are the order of the day. To be honest with you it’s frustrating and somehow depressing. But, I recently discovered that we have to keep on trying to spread the word, for the new generations in an effort to make better decisions, better people and a better world. Let’s keep fighting for animal rights, let’s keep the guard up against animal cruelty, and above all, let’s keep spreading the word everywhere we go not to make people sympathize but to make consciousness!

[Jessie Thimmesch]

Ruben and others,
I am partially against your views. I understand your concerns but I disagree.

You were saying something about horse meat being necessary and I agree it is not necessary. But you lost me when you said there are other meat sources. You ask for compassion but yet you have no compassion for other animals like cattle. I have pet cows and sheep and you failed to mention how much they could mean to someone. You are mad about horse slaughter but you fail to mention helping other animals that are butchered for people to eat. And NO "Professional" would be able to miss something that important.

I quote, "We’re to believe that eating horse meat is necessary? Is there no other type of meat-food in the market? It’s really true, that horse slaughter is the ONLY possible solution to all horse related problems?" The second question is what upset me.

I further my point:
Have you ever ate a hamburger, bacon any kind of meat at all ...maybe you have eaten shrimp, beef, buffalo, lobster, crab, tuna, any kind of fish. These animals all have lives to if you can eat them you are being a hypocrite.
If you have eaten one of the above your protests are ridiculous. I love horses and always have but I have sheep, buffalo, cows, ducks that I have grown attached to but they were later had to be sold and they were finally made into someone’s dinner. It is sad, but it is how things go. Usually the only horses that get slaughtered get slaughtered for a reason: because no one will ever be able to ride them or they got hurt. That is the OWNERS choice. Occasionally they is a good horse put to the death but very few. If horse slaughtering (I hate that word its not right for the situation) doesn’t continue we will have them overpopulating us, they will also take up land that is needed for other things, and it will help our stock market go down farther though it is already suffering. Horse prices are so low that there is no reason for selling because one person will put more money into a horse than will ever be reimbursed in work or sale. I am sorry to bring this to your attention but it is true. because of many reasons horses are put down (and sometimes its better they are, because they are hurt so they are suffering or because no1 will ever be able to ride them) they are made into meat for our benefit they are better feeding starving people than rotting in the ground. The horses would like to have helped us as we have helped a lot of them (though some are hurt by people) thank you for reading this and I hope you change your mind…. though it still is not completely right. I love horses and wish not to kill them but make the right choice worry about your horses or ponies and live your life enjoying everything the horse species has done and will do for us. I disagree with young horses that haven’t even got a chance to live being sold to slaughter houses.

The issue of the metal rod shot through their head upset me. People use that as the only excuse for it being inhumane. When cattle are butchered (in my experiences) they have a bullet or sometimes many bullets have to be shot through their heads. The bullets and the rods have a similar effect on the animal (it dies—FAST) “Horse industry leaders say the shutdown of the U.S. slaughter plants has resulted in horses being hauled farther, to processing plants in Canada and Mexico. The Mexican plants use less humane methods than the plants that operated in the U.S.” (quoted from the Rapid City Journal)
I LOVE HORSES! But, especially, in this economy people don’t have enough money to support lame horses or horses that cannot be used.

[Belles]

Jessie,

I think you make some valid points, but I disagree with you in general theory. Horses are working animals, owned by individuals. Many people put alot of time, effort and a great deal of money into a horse and unfortunately, when they become lame, ill or too old.. not everyone feels the bond to care for them for the rest of their lives. Remember too that horses live to be 20 PLUS years old.. that's a long time to commit for some.. for others, they wouldn't have it any other way.

Also, when we're talking about cattle, sheep and other animals.. they are raised specifically to provide food for the chain. Granted, some, like your animals are your pets and would not ever be a part of that food chain. My mother did the same thing.. she'd buy calves for butcher, sheep for wool or butcher.. and then she lost her nerve about butchering them. When my husband and I had a farm, we had no such notions. We bought our angus calves for butcher.. they were not pets to us.

The other issue I have is that in today's market, horses are not just being slaughtered because they are unable to be ridden, misbehave or other. Horses are being slaughtered for any reason. The vast majority of healthy horses going to slaughter CAN be rescued or salvaged. The problem is.. we have an overpopulation of horses. Not everyone can be saved. It's up to breeders to quit breeding.. or breed very rarely.

If you visit foreign countries like France, you'll find specialty butcher shops that sell horse meat. It says, "Horse Meat - Not From USA".. because even the French realize that we slaughter diseased animals and use them in animal feed. They like their horse meat free from disease.

There are far more good horses put down than you can even imagine. In fact, the vast majority of horses that are young and otherwise healthy.. are good horses. They have been unfortunately owned by the wrong person.. someone who doesn't know how to train them properly or has given up on them. The inexperienced rider who gets bucked off because of HUMAN ERROR.. yet the horse is labeled "bad". No offense, but you are just as ill-informed and in error as they are.

I work in gentling horses. I've only ever met one that I could not gentle - and she belonged to me.. and I've had everything from Wild Mustangs to PMU Mares to work with.. the nastiest tempered horses in the whole world. The horses I've dealt with are mean, aggressive and many times just plain "nuts". They just take a litte more time.. to trust humans again.

[Jessie Thimmesch]

Yes but why, in all honesty, are cattle, sheep and other similar animals mainly raised for meat products and horses cannot? Why did it become that a horse is so high above all other animals?

Cows get shot with a bullet and get killed. How is it that that cow's life means less than the horses. Is it because there is no bond betweeen you and the cow?
[you mentioned that some people sell horses that are perfectly fine to a slaughter house and they ran into the wrong person, who didn't understand them] In other words, that human most likely didn't have a very good bond with that horse. But yet you find it right to kill a cow or sheep because there is no bond but not a horse?

And yes, humans sometimes do not make a bond with a horse. You train and calm down some, as you said, horses that are "nuts" and I understand. My family and I have owned some crazy horses through the years but we have tried to only buy horses that have a soft temper in the past few years because of my younger brothers. I have spent my ENTIRE life on horses (even as a baby my mom rode with me). But I have had my share of crazy horses that were just in pain. I nursed a three year old through a completely broken jaw and begged my mom and grandpa to let me heal her (the vets said she would never heal without a surgery). But I set it and took care of her with NO help and I was 12/13 at the time. She is now a good woking horse. I don't like to see horses die AT ALL. But my horse JJ (short fo Jesse James) died today and I was extremely upset.

I have had my share of experiences and pain from horses. I have seen some crazy stuff and I myself have always given a horse a second chance. Many people don't do that. But money is always an issue in this, ALWAYS. If people find a horse that is hurt, really is crazy, or is not trained and won't sell for very much money they still want to get MONEY out of it. And people are hurting for money right now. They pay for the feed while they own that horse, the energy bill [that has to be used to pump water up from the ground through a well so the horse can drink], minerals/salts the horse will need, taxes on land/buy land [for the horse to live on]. The people who own the horses have to support the horses. When it comes to a time when that person can't pay for a horse that is not able to be used or they straight out can't pay anymore, they want to get rid of the horse and get as much money as they can from them. When you have a young horse that is not trained and you can't get it sold at all or can't get it sold for much money, people have a tendency to find the "easy out" option. One that gets rid of the problem and gives them something in return for supporting it.

Once again I'll mention the quote:
“Horse industry leaders say the shutdown of the U.S. slaughter plants has resulted in horses being hauled farther, to processing plants in Canada and Mexico. The Mexican plants use less humane methods than the plants that operated in the U.S.” (quoted from the Rapid City Journal)

People will go out of country if desperate enough. And money is a reason many are desperate.

Breeding is a business but it also happens naturally and completely unexpected (just like humans). Humans have baby "accidents" often also but we do not call a woman trying to get pregnant a business(breeding). Breeding intensionally is not all of the problem. If breeding didn't occur, a lot of amazing, adorable, and great working horses wouldn't be alive today.

I do not consider myself ill-informed but I am not always right.

Once again you want my compassion to give some horses another chance but yet you would not spare any other (similar) animal's life. You don't seem to have compassion for those animals that don't have a bond with you but yet you ask others to have compassion for horses that you/they don't directly have a bond with.

Thank you for your opinions.
Jessie

[The Professional]

Jessie, after reading your post I was a little confuse, but I figure it out. I wasn’t even going to reply but what the heck, for the benefit of other readers I feel like, to clarify some points here. First of all, I don’t think you’re… what’s the word I’m looking for? …Ah! GENUINE.

You may sound like you really care but the defenses you offer to the slaughter ways obviously contradict your sayings. Your arguments about having a pet zoo at home falling into the ridiculous plain, So instead of getting to an endless argue to prove what is obvious (plus Belles made an eloquent explanation) and convince you to change your ideas as you can’t change mine with that opening of yours, I prefer to point out that to me horses are the most important animal of God’s creation and one don’t need to be a “professional” as I’m a professional TRAINER to understand that.

A good horse is always a good horse and valued accordingly. Saying that because of the low economy status the horses are cheaper is a misinformation; you probably have no knowledge of the horse marketing and it’s irresponsible on your part to diminish their monetary value with proper knowledge of it.

Checking on me in my profile won’t automatically make you know me. You don’t know how many other animal causes I’m involve and you don’t need to know. If you come clean and honest and openly express your thoughts in favor of slaughter plants I could respect your position a little more.

They do have some valid points that tilt the balance if one doesn’t know better. But, you’re the real hypocrite here projecting yourself as horse lover when you’re obviously not. So I can’t respect that, I think you are a disguising yourself and trying to make slaughter plants look like an alternative when they’re not. I like dolphins and I like sharks, I considered both to be very interesting animals… both of them play an important role in the marine circle of life and both species are massacred from unscrupulous fishermen’s; but when comes to make a decision on who I prefer most I would say the dolphin. Is that making me a bad person? Then you go swim with the sharks.

Why do we defend horses here? Why not other animals? Well, is because, this is a horse forum where we discuss horse abuse issues. I frequent other animal’s forums even if they are not of my personal preference like pit-bulls and whales, because what is wrong, it’s wrong. You should think before use words to insinuate what you really mean. The world is not perfect, we can’t stop the evildoers who inflict pain and suffer to animals, and it won’t be realistic to think we can change the way people believe. But that should not stop us from trying and I may not change the world horses live, but I may change the world for that horse.

"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand”
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006

[Belles]

Extremely well said, my friend! Keep your eye out for that anti-transport legislation.. they expect passage.

[Belles]

Jessie,

I'll try and respond as best I can by quoting you.. and then answering:

Why did it become that a horse is so high above all other animals?
Because a horse, historically is a working animal. Used for ranching, drafting, hauling and pulling. A cow cannot be trained for these roles. The closest thing that comes to a bovine-type animal is an Ox, who were only used for food after they outlived their usefulness as a working animal. Historically and in the modern world, horses were used only for food during lean times. The Indians and farmers valued their horses because it helped them decrease the labor they had to expend to do things like hunt, tend crops, build homes, etc.

Cows get shot with a bullet and get killed. How is it that that cow's life means less than the horses. Is it because there is no bond betweeen you and the cow?
Correct. Normally, most people don't buy cattle for pets or working. They have them for food, milk and other byproducts. There are very few ways in which you can kill a cow.. a bullet is one. Maybe not the best, but sometimes it's all you have. In today's modern dairy, they use cow manure for fuel as an alternative energy source. Every bit of the cow is used in the food chain.

Many people don't do that. But money is always an issue in this, ALWAYS. If people find a horse that is hurt, really is crazy, or is not trained and won't sell for very much money they still want to get MONEY out of it.
This is the point of my reply. Horses, in the mindset of the average horse owner, offer no other service if they cannot be ridden, are sick or diseased or are just too old. There are no outlets for a poorly trained horse, a horse that has been abused or mistreated and a horse that has simply outlived its usefulness. It is far too expensive for the average owner to hang onto a horse for the duration of their lives. Unfortunately, because there is such a glut on the market for horses.. there are no places for them to go. So, these people turn to slaughter and while the decision cannot be easy for most of them.. they end up grinding their horses up anyway.. and getting paid by the pound. That's the reality.

“Horse industry leaders say the shutdown of the U.S. slaughter plants has resulted in horses being hauled farther, to processing plants in Canada and Mexico. The Mexican plants use less humane methods than the plants that operated in the U.S.”
You should do a bit more research on this issue. Federal lawmakers recently reintroduced legislation that aims to abate the transport, sale, delivery, or export of horses for slaughter for human consumption. It aims to criminalize the purchase, sale, delivery, or export of horsemeat intended for human consumption.

HR 503, the Conyers-Burton Prevention of Equine Cruelty Act, was introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives Judiciary Committee on Jan. 14 by sponsors Committee Chairman John Conyers of Michigan and Rep. Dan Burton of Indiana. The new legislation is similar to the Prevention of Equine Cruelty Act of 2008. That was passed by the committee this past September but never reached the House floor for a vote.

There are a few holes in this legislation - mainly the concern is that people will just change the reasoning for the transport on the paperwork, so holes have to be filled before the legislation will have any "teeth", but we are getting there.

I hope you are passionate enough to support this bill with your local lawmakers in your state.. as you seem to be passionate about replying to this topic. In other words, get off your computer and take a stand for horses and send your lawmakers the message that this bill must be passed and signed into law.

Breeding is a business but it also happens naturally and completely unexpected (just like humans). Humans have baby "accidents" often also but we do not call a woman trying to get pregnant a business(breeding). Breeding intensionally is not all of the problem. If breeding didn't occur, a lot of amazing, adorable, and great working horses wouldn't be alive today.
Breeding dogs and cats are a business too.. and yes, you don't have to lecture me about the birds and the bees for me to realize that accidents do happen, but accidents should not happen and in fact.. you know as well as anyone else that the number of horses born as a result of these "accidents" is far and few between.. as compared to the number of horses born as a result of direct breeding.

You should also know horse owners and know that they all feel they have the greatest horse on earth and their ego's can only be satisfied if they reproduce these animals.. the ones nobody really wants. The odds of an horse born today to go on to become a champion this or the fastest on the track.. are slim and extremely rare.

You can rest assured that if all backyard horse breeders quit breeding their horses TODAY, there would still be many horses available for sale. We never have to worry about them becoming extinct. With the exception of the few breeders who know what they are doing when breeding two horses, the average backyard breeder doesn't have a clue and is only being selfish to bring yet another horse into this world.

Once again you want my compassion to give some horses another chance but yet you would not spare any other (similar) animal's life. You don't seem to have compassion for those animals that don't have a bond with you but yet you ask others to have compassion for horses that you/they don't directly have a bond with.
That's because I'm a realist, Jessie. And once again.. let me reiterate.. that a cow and a horse ARE NOT SIMILAR!!!!! I don't own cows and sheep as pets.. they are not. They are food, milk, wool and provide resources to the food chain. I also had 47 laying hens that I adored and sang to every single night when gathering their eggs. I gave them lovely treats and made them special feed.. letting them sit on my lap in the hen house and enjoying their personalities. Yet, I still gathered their eggs and I still enjoyed the food they produced. Did I butcher them? No.. I didn't. They gave me eggs and somehow at the ends of their lives, I didn't think it was respectable to eat them. However, many families with little to eat did.. and that's fine too. Did we butcher our old milk cow when she was in the end of her life? Of course not.. we buried her on our acreage and thanked her for all she gave us. Some families, however, wouldn't think twice about it.

Don't you dare lecture me and assume I am not compassionate about animals. You have no idea who I am, what I do or how I do it. I did not assume this about you. You must be very young and naieve because if you had any sense and maturity, you would realize that not everyone in this world is going to share your obsession with farm animals as pets.. many of us live in the real world and see them as food and raise them as such.

I don't see horses as a food source, but other countries do. I personally wouldn't make the choice to eat horse meat as I find it abhorrent based on #1 - the diseases horses have when they die (I don't even use dog foods with horse meat as an ingredient!!) #2 - I have a bond with horses as working partners and animals that do a job for me and #3 - I don't have to eat horse meat, I have cattle, sheep, chickens and other.

You should consider yourself ill-informed.. or at least prejudiced by your own relationships (however abnormal that might be) with your animals.

I don't even want to know what you did with the horses you didn't want.. who did you throw them away to? Probably someone like me who worked to bring out the best in your horses.. to make them safe for you to ride once again.