Are we getting there with the message?

[The Professional]

Are we getting there with the message?
Hello everyone, my name is Ruben (a.k.a. The Professional)
I am concern about the “stop cruelty towards horses” message, which we’re trying to spread out there.
It’s reaching the conscience of people yet? I think not! Perhaps it sound like a negative statement, but the truth is that I’m a little frustrated over this issue. Every day is some new case of horse abuse and even horse people agree with slaughter plants. Not to mention those who believe euthanasia is the only alternative, giving the horse no second chance to live. Can someone tell me if we’re getting “there” with our message…please?

Cordially,
The Professional

[Jessie Thimmesch]

"You can go on all you like about cows, sheep, chickens or whatever.. but inevitably, this group is about Stopping HORSE SLAUGHTER."

Yes, it is about horse slaughter. but my point is that if you can kill a cow to eat you should be able to kill a horse. Simple as that. We ARE debating horse slaughter. I am just giving more realistic views to this forum.

And YOU are the one who brought up PMU mares which has nothing to do with horse slaughter. Making drugs IS Not what I originally tried to discuss. You brought that up yourself. I just replied.

"If you don't get the message to STOP BREEDING unwanted horses and for the horse industry to wake up and quit creating new life when it is overpopulated.. then I have nothing more to say to you."

yes, breeding. it's a problem. but let me ask you this, the human population is heading toward overpopulation, are we taking very big acts to stop that? NO. cause it is amazing to see a new life come into the world. people that breed for their own pleasure is their problem. They have to take responsibility for that horse. As for PMU companies, they seem like a major problem. Mass breeding takes place in PMU “farms”. There is half your problem. Over 50,000 horses are in these PMU plants.

"You seem to gloss over a simple fact.. that many of the horses headed to slaughter are the cast offs that nobody wants - perfectly fine horses that have been ruined by inexperienced owners, or horse people not qualified to deal with personality issues. We're not talking old horses.. we're talking young and salvagable. Unfortunately, there's no more room at the inn.. the overbreeding has become a huge issue.”

Yes they are all the horses NOBODY wants. If they are sold at slaughter, there usually is a REASON. Yes, maybe it bucked off their 5 yr. old. Maybe it broke their back. Some horses just don’t seem usable. Or there is not enough time to train them or help them. Whispering a horse takes TIME. And of all people Belles you should know that. Some people don’t feel like wasting their time on a horse that they don’t think can be tamed. And some people don't have the time and/or resources to help those horses that are damaged.


”Even if that number was even.. cast off horses, vs. older horses, how can you justify their treatment on the way to the slaughter plant.. and when they get there, they are horrifically murdered in a cruel and inhumane way.”

Wow you really do not know much about slaughterhouses or science! They shoot a metal rod through their head. Correct. Which is actually more humane than shooting a bullet through their heads. Simple Science. The rod is specifically driven into a main nerve section of their brain it kills the horse instantly. Some slaughter house use a double rod system, to make sure that horse is immediately killed and suffers little. If you argue with this, you are simply naïve and really don’t understand horse slaughter. If you don’t understand. You shouldn’t be debating it. There are REASONS that a metal rod is used rather than bullets. And you seem uninformed of why. If you think an instant death my rod is horrible, you should definitely not agree with bullets through a cow or a sheep’s brain. Bullets if not shot right go into the brain and leave animal in pain or in shock.

“You're not a farmer. If you were, you would understand the value of the food chain and what farm animals are for. You are a person that has farm animals for pets. That's fine, but when your wallet starts emptying out, what are your plans. They don't call them cash cows for nothing.”

Actually I am and even my “pet” sheep get butchered when they are no longer of use. I have to. They are our (no gas needed) lawn mowers and they love it very much! But there is a time when they have outlived their keep and then we butcher and eat them. And YES I am RANCHER. There is a difference. Farms are more agricultural (crop based), and ranches are more animal based.

“I think if you don't want to support the horse slaughter industry then its fine to state your opposing viewpoints so that those who do support it can see where your type stands on the issues, but you're making arguments about why horses cannot be edible like cows and other farm animals. Seriously, if you want that debate it doesn't belong here.”

UMMM you just went completely backwards on that statement above. I am supporting the horse industry and I can post on a forum my opposing views. Just like you can. In addition, I said that horses CAN be edible just like cows and other farm animals. Which they can and should be. Not everyone keeps their horses as "pets" either.

I further my points. However, I am sensing you just keep getting madder at me because some of my points are logical and actually might make sense.

[The Professional]

by Jessie Thimmesch-"and you may be right about the animal forums subject of my debate. but you will never see a "COW ABUSE" forum!!!"

On the contrary I’ve saw one too many… here is a link of one forum where they keep updates of the abuse and cruelty against cows all over the country.

http://www.hsus.org/farm/news/ournews/downer_investigation_050708.html

"but having the actual experiences of watching sale barn prices fluctuate gives you the hands-on experience of watching what it does to people and those horses. It gives a person a very good idea of the market (especially when the many sale barns i deal with are MAJOR sale barns in my state.) and yes i am not a "public advisor in economics or an expert horse sales representative" but it doesnt take either one of those to know what is going on. I honestly doubt you are a public advisor in economics or an expert horse sales representative either, so please don't judge my intelligence just because I don't have some degree for economics or work as a representative (when I have represented the horse industry for enough years just by taking part in it)"

No I’m not a public advisor in economics, neither an expert sale horse representative, I’m a Paso Fino Horse Trainer, so you don’t have any more doubt about my profession. But as YOU say, I don’t need to be neither of doses to figure out what is going on or how they cut the cheese these days. Still, you have to understand that you did make an irresponsible statement when you say…”Horse prices are so low that there is no reason for selling because one person will put more money into a horse than will ever be reimbursed in work or sale.”

Instead of you apologies or try to fix things up you’re trying to cover it up with your pompous presumption of your BIG SALE BARN or your “MAJOR sale barns in my state.” and that’s unacceptable. I don’t need to be a brain surgeon to realize the kind of advice you can give to one about the horse industry. So as you can see I’m not judging you for not having a degree in economics, you’re the one who expose your intelligence in the subject with your declarations. I don’t need to know for how long you’ve represent the horse industry because I don’t care.

If you really represent the horse industry you’re doing a lousy job agreeing on horse slaughter and PMU mares. The way you keep arguing about something so obvious, show that you don’t really care about PMU mares, or horse slaughter plants, but only about having the last word on the discussion. What your telling us with your tantrum is that you’re not mature enough to either accept the fact that PMU and horse slaughters are wrong and that this is a people-against-horse-slaughter-forum, OR stop accusing us of judging you for your comments.

I have no doubt, I’m convinced that you’re not here to defend and advocate for the horses cause. So do yourself a favor and come clean for we’re trying to enjoy comment against horse slaughter plants and horse for human consumption for these magnificent mammals have transcended, they have go beyond any other animal including cows in quality and achievement. They were use to feed humans in the cavern ages, but their porpoise in life where clearly observe by men and they become partners in the expansion of human kind through the continents. That’s why horses can’t be use for human consumption; we have a moral obligation with their help in the civilization of the world. I hope you can at least sympathize with that.

[The Professional]

Thank you Belles, you're the best! There is saying in my town that goes... "Tu puedes llevar un caballo a beber agua pero no puedes obligarlo a que beba"
"One can take a horse to drink water but, you can't obligate him to drink" MEans that no matter how hard you tray to educate pople if they don't whant to learn there is nothing you can do about it.

[Belles]

I think this should be the new saying in your town! LOL

Jessie es un Imbécil y una persona cruel. ¡Mayo su caballo la golpea con el pie en la cabeza y golpea un cierto sentido en su cerebro grueso!

[Belles]

And YOU are the one who brought up PMU mares which has nothing to do with horse slaughter.

I promised myself to try and not make this personal against you, but you just blew that one sister. If you don't understand the PMU mare issue, the go educate yourself.

I never said you couldn't state your viewpoints, but when you do, expect a backlash of people that despise your stance on this issue.

The effects of jamming too many horses into a slaughter truck:

[Belles]

And here's another one for your "bolt is humane" discussion.. really? This is what you call humane?

Robin Cook MD (the well known author) in going uncover to a slaughterhouse to research for a book he was writing he described it as “the most terrible thing I have ever seen, both as a medical doctor and as a man”



An extract from his description is as follows.

They are led to the pneumatic “captive bolt” gun containing their final destiny. The shooter will try and take aim as best as he can, trying to hit the panicked and thrashing animal in the forehead (between and slightly above the eyes) the object is not to actually kill, but only to stun the animal but more often than not the bolt will not actually hit it’s intended mark, and must be brutally slammed into the skull again before the horse goes down.

As the horse falls (after a sickening to watch reflexive pain jump) from the induced shock of having the bolt penetrate it’s brain, it drops, this once magnificent animal, knowing it has been mortally wounded and must escape, goes to the only defence it knows against this unknown foe- flight.

It gallops at full speed toward the safe pastures of youth, to a time when a human hand held treats not death. But now, helplessly lying on it’s side on the blood and urine splattered floor of the slaughter house, it’s once fast and elegant legs just thrash helplessly in the air, the beat of its fleet hooves only a distant memory.

The slaughterhouse workers seeing this once powerful and majestic animal in it’s last gallop of death callously cheer it on. The noise is deafening – the smell even worse, the horse has been urinating all over itself since being led unwillingly into this horror, the smell of acrid urine manure and blood-all mixed together makes the senses reel.

If the animal is lucky it dies quickly to be hoisted up it’s carotid artery cut and allowed to hang there till it bleeds to death- most foreign horsemeat buyers prefer there “biftec de cheval” processed this way.

The horse below has a captive bolt hole in its cheek! It is still alive waiting to be processed.

[Belles]

My friend Ruben.. feel free to delete the post.. but I just want this chick Jessie to see what it's like.. nothing we say is going to convince her.. so maybe the truth will make her think twice about posting a stupid argument again in some discussion she is completely clueless about.

You're a waste of my time Jessie.. and I pray you never enjoy the priviledge of owning a horse.. and God forbid if one should ever step out of line with you.. I'm afraid you wouldn't think twice about sending it off to slaughter.

[The Professional]

I think it should stay, so others can have the chance to see it for themselves, there is no argue on that. Thank you Belles, I also want to post a pic of an abuse cow so every one knows the extend of human cruelty towards all living animals.

http://www.hsus.org/farm/news/ournews/downer_investigation_050708.html

[Jessie Thimmesch]

Thanks belles but im not a stupid or cruel person I just know that your bravado that horse slaughter is completely horrible is so uncalled for.
And yes I can believe that they're are some horses that die like the description above. but you yourelf said that most of these horses are perfectly fine horses that didn't get a chance. if all of those trained horses are going to slaughter why is there such a fuss in the shooting stall.

your picture above about the cramming to many horses into a trailer is irrelivant. because if you pack any animal together extremely bad they will die like this. but they're are weigh stations for semi-trucks that will weigh them out, to stop people from doing stuff like this. they can be ticketed for overloading and putting to much weight in their trailers.


and once again the PMU mares discussion is brought up again. I thought i remember you guys sayng this is a horse SLAUGHTER forum.


I can see you are as stubborn as i am and refuse to even look at my point of view either. so I am going to stop wasting my time on you. but if you cant slaughter a horse I hope the next time you eat a hamburger you gag.

[Ashley Rose Coticchio]

Hello, my name is Ashley.
I'm one of those people who avidly loathes anyone who could ever do harm to a HORSE! I have been riding for 16 years, and have always thought of them as mystical, angelic creatures, who have their own language A, and B, if that language isn't understood, the person who "loves" horses really doesn't. Anyone to agree on such a disgusting deed, no matter what the horse's physical state shouldn't be allowed near a horse. It is very very frustrating to even label this issue as just cruelty. This is no different, from people killing innocent anything....dogs or cats, and leaving them lying in your backyard to look at....and what if someone wanted to eat your cat or dog....because it TASTES good????? Because selfish barbarians want to make a little money??? GET REAL PEOPLE! Horses are not for consumption, and it's not going to take uncaring spoiled little rich girls/people who are given horses for mere pleasure of sport, or trade, to give any sort of hoot about whether their failed horse goes to a slaughter house. FIND SOME REAL HORSE LOVERS....then the problem will stop!!!

[The Professional]

Ashley Rose Coticchio, My hat is off to you!